This New York Times Opinion podcast features a conversation between Ross Douthat and Ezra Klein, delving into the intertwining of belief, the Trump administration, and the resurgence of political mysticism. The discussion explores Douthat's perspective on Trump as a 'man of destiny' and the implications of this interpretation for Trump's allies and staff.
Douthat maintains his view of Trump as a figure touched by fortune, transcending typical political rules. He highlights the unpredictable forces at play in history, often linked to specific personalities. The conversation acknowledges that a 'man of destiny' can be both impactful and detrimental. Klein and Douthat discuss how this perception has influenced Trump's inner circle, leading to decreased questioning of his decisions.
The conversation then analyzes the mystical interpretation of Trump and its impact on the right wing. It contrasts Trump's first and second terms, noting a shift from internal staff questioning to a more uncritical acceptance of his decisions, rooted in a belief in Trump's mystical intuition. The discussion also touches upon how the surprisingly successful first-term record has reinforced this perception.
The analogy of the League of Shadows from Batman Begins is brought up as a way to understand the view held by some on the right – that the current situation is so dire that the release of chaos is justified. The podcast tackles the reasons for Trump's success, suggesting that simply electing Joe Biden was insufficient to address the underlying issues.
Douthat and Klein discuss the contrasting elements of paganism and Christianity within the Trump administration, using figures like JD Vance as a representative of the Christian side and Elon Musk as a representation of the pagan side. The podcast also notes Trump's own blend of both tendencies.
The discussion analyzes the motivations behind the alliance between religious conservatives and Trump, highlighting a blend of transactional support, and a hope for national renewal that might bring about religious revival. The podcast explores the potential for this alliance to compromise Christian values, particularly in relation to the treatment of the powerless.
The conversation directly addresses the cruelty directed toward the powerless, particularly immigrants, contrasting it with the Christian ethos of compassion. The podcast emphasizes how this cruelty, even if justified through claims of the burden placed on the working class, is antithetical to Christian values.
The conversation also delves into the challenges of maintaining moral convictions in a politically polarized environment lacking a unified religious or moral compass. The podcast notes that forces possessing seemingly historical energy can compel individuals to compromise their values.
The conversation shifts towards a discussion of materialism versus religious experience, arguing against the claim that secularization has eliminated mystical experiences. The conversation cites examples of individuals from varied backgrounds experiencing these phenomena, arguing against the reduction of these experiences to purely material explanations.
The podcast explores the argument for channeling belief into organized religion, highlighting the order within the universe and the consistent patterns in spiritual experiences across cultures. The conversation acknowledges the diversity among religions but emphasizes the value of a tradition that offers both core values and flexibility.
The discussion analyzes the role of psychedelics, noting the potential for contact with non-human spiritual entities and the need for caution and preparation in such encounters. The conversation considers the arguments for and against the use of psychedelics as spiritual technologies and their potential dangers.
The conversation moves to a discussion of ‘official knowledge,’ defined as the widely accepted understanding of the world, often perpetuated by established institutions. Douthat's experience with chronic Lyme disease is presented as a case study highlighting the limitations and potential failures of official knowledge.
The conversation concludes by examining the growing polarization around official knowledge in politics, noting how the alignment of political parties with respect to established institutions has shifted. The podcast explores the challenge faced by the Republican Party in establishing a reliable system of knowledge generation independent of Trump's influence.